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Sci.Electronics.Basics -> quick emitter follower question

There are 25 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 20 to 25.






Author: Eeyore
Date: 13:19 15-09-06



tempus fugit wrote:

> "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote
in
> > tempus fugit wrote:
> >
> > > > JFETs make very very acceptable audio switches when used correctly.
> > >
> > > I'm intrigued. Any suggestions on how to use one for this application?
> >
> > Dead easy.
> >
> > Use a nice low Ron jfet like a J108 and pull it off with a negative
> > voltage on the gate.
> > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J108.html
> >
> > Use an open-collecter arrangement to drive the gate with say 10M from
> > gate to source. The signal path is from drain to source ( bidirectional ).
> Use a
> > 10k 'pull down' R on both in and out to avoid any DC levels getting into the
>
> > switch.
> >
> > If finding a negative voltage is a problem use a p-channel device like a
> > J174 and pull the gate positive.
> > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J174.html
> >
> > The n-channel parts have lower Ron as do the lower numbered devices in
> > each family. The tradeoff is a higher Vgs to turn them off.
> >
>
> >Hi Ee
>
> I actually discovered the J105 and was thinking of trying to use it somehow
> already.

Yeah you could use that. Do note that it needs 10V to turn it off though.


> I haven't really worked with JFETs much before, and am only now becoming
> familiar with the open collector thing (which would be open drain in this
> case?).

No. The open collector arrangement is to drive the fet gate from a bipolar
transistor.


> Could we move this discussion to ABSE and I can post a schematic of
> what I think it should be set up like? I'm also unsure of the biasing
> required.

I'll crosspost it now.

Oh and please try to avoid top-posting, thanks.

Graham


Author: tempus fugit
Date: 21:11 15-09-06



"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:450AE0BF.8B622F79@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...
>
>
> tempus fugit wrote:
>
> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com>
wrote in
> > > tempus fugit wrote:
> > >
> > > > > JFETs make very very acceptable audio switches when used
correctly.
> > > >
> > > > I'm intrigued. Any suggestions on how to use one for this
application?
> > >
> > > Dead easy.
> > >
> > > Use a nice low Ron jfet like a J108 and pull it off with a negative
> > > voltage on the gate.
> > > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J108.html
> > >
> > > Use an open-collecter arrangement to drive the gate with say 10M from
> > > gate to source. The signal path is from drain to source (
bidirectional ).
> > Use a
> > > 10k 'pull down' R on both in and out to avoid any DC levels getting
into the
> >
> > > switch.
> > >
> > > If finding a negative voltage is a problem use a p-channel device like
a
> > > J174 and pull the gate positive.
> > > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J174.html
> > >
> > > The n-channel parts have lower Ron as do the lower numbered devices in
> > > each family. The tradeoff is a higher Vgs to turn them off.
> > >
> >
> > >Hi Ee
> >
> > I actually discovered the J105 and was thinking of trying to use it
somehow
> > already.
>
> Yeah you could use that. Do note that it needs 10V to turn it off though.
>
>
> > I haven't really worked with JFETs much before, and am only now becoming
> > familiar with the open collector thing (which would be open drain in
this
> > case?).
>
> No. The open collector arrangement is to drive the fet gate from a bipolar
> transistor.
>
>
> > Could we move this discussion to ABSE and I can post a schematic of
> > what I think it should be set up like? I'm also unsure of the biasing
> > required.
>
> I'll crosspost it now.
>
> Oh and please try to avoid top-posting, thanks.
>
> Graham
>



Author: tempus fugit
Date: 10:41 16-09-06

OK.....

I've posted the schem a few times over the last 24 hrs or so, but it isn't
appearing here, so I don't know if it's appearing where you are. I wonder if
it is getting stripped or something.

Is anyone seeing my other posts with the schem?

Thanks


"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:450AE0BF.8B622F79@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com...
>
>
> tempus fugit wrote:
>
> > "Eeyore" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@REMOVETHIS.hotmail.com>
wrote in
> > > tempus fugit wrote:
> > >
> > > > > JFETs make very very acceptable audio switches when used
correctly.
> > > >
> > > > I'm intrigued. Any suggestions on how to use one for this
application?
> > >
> > > Dead easy.
> > >
> > > Use a nice low Ron jfet like a J108 and pull it off with a negative
> > > voltage on the gate.
> > > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J108.html
> > >
> > > Use an open-collecter arrangement to drive the gate with say 10M from
> > > gate to source. The signal path is from drain to source (
bidirectional ).
> > Use a
> > > 10k 'pull down' R on both in and out to avoid any DC levels getting
into the
> >
> > > switch.
> > >
> > > If finding a negative voltage is a problem use a p-channel device like
a
> > > J174 and pull the gate positive.
> > > http://www.fairchildsemi.com/pf/J1/J174.html
> > >
> > > The n-channel parts have lower Ron as do the lower numbered devices in
> > > each family. The tradeoff is a higher Vgs to turn them off.
> > >
> >
> > >Hi Ee
> >
> > I actually discovered the J105 and was thinking of trying to use it
somehow
> > already.
>
> Yeah you could use that. Do note that it needs 10V to turn it off though.
>
>
> > I haven't really worked with JFETs much before, and am only now becoming
> > familiar with the open collector thing (which would be open drain in
this
> > case?).
>
> No. The open collector arrangement is to drive the fet gate from a bipolar
> transistor.
>
>
> > Could we move this discussion to ABSE and I can post a schematic of
> > what I think it should be set up like? I'm also unsure of the biasing
> > required.
>
> I'll crosspost it now.
>
> Oh and please try to avoid top-posting, thanks.
>
> Graham
>



Author: John Woodgate
Date: 10:57 16-09-06

In message <40f87$450c0ccb$d1d89bd0$31884@PRIMUS.CA>, dated Sat, 16 Sep
2006, tempus fugit <toccata@no.spam.ciaccess.com> writes
>I've posted the schem a few times over the last 24 hrs or so, but it
>isn't appearing here, so I don't know if it's appearing where you are.
>I wonder if it is getting stripped or something.

Post it ONLY to ABSE. It will be stripped if you post to SEB as well.
>
>Is anyone seeing my other posts with the schem?

No.
--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk
There are benefits from being irrational - just ask the square root of 2.
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

Author: Kevin Aylward
Date: 04:09 17-09-06

Bob Eld wrote:
> "tempus fugit" <toccata@no.spam.ciaccess.com> wrote in message
> news:a98d7$450835ed$d1d89e7c$28509@PRIMUS.CA... /> >> Hi;
>>
>> I'm thinking about using a simple 1 transistor emitter follower in an
> audio
>> design (the audio signal will pass thru it). Does the noise figure
>> of the transistor need to be taken into account, or will there be no
>> noise added since there is no amplification happening (sort of like
>> the signal just 'passes thru' the transistor untouched)?
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Never add an open, simple emitter follower to a high quality audio
> circuit. As was mentioned they will add distortion to the signal
> which may be tolerable in a phone or other circuit where high quality
> audio is not required. This happens because the internal emitter
> resistance, re, is a function of the emitter current which in turn is
> a function of the base to emitter voltage. This makes a variable,
> non-linear, voltage divider with the load impedance. The nominal gain
> is one, but in reality is always less than one and varies with the
> voltage level. That non-linearity causes excessive distortion both
> harmonic and intermodulation.

This is not really accurate, to wit:

The 2nd harmonic distortion of a naked bipoler input is Vi(mv)%. That
is, with 1mv AC peak vbe the distortion is aproximatly 1%. This is, of
course rather large for such a small signal. (see
http://www.anasoft.co.uk/EE/bipolardesign2/bipolardesign2.html)

However, with an emmiter follower, the distortion is reduced by two
facters. One the attenuation of re/Re, and two, the effect of local
feedback. That is, the output is in series with the input.

Suppose, we have 1ma IE, and a 5k emitter resister (5V drop, 10V
supply). At 1ma re=25 ohms. With a 1V signal, the signal at Vbe will be
1x25/5k = 5mv, generating a nominal 5%. However, the local loop feedback
gain can be shown to also be re/Re, so this figure is reduced to
5%.25/5k = 0.025%.

For larger signals, the distortion will go up with the square, but it is
debatable just what level of distortion is significant.

As far as noise goes, the follower just adds its basic transistor
thermal and shot noise, the emitter resister has negligible effect. This
is in contrast to retaining the emitter resister to reduce distortion,
but taking the output from the collector, whence the emitter resister
will generate an additional 5k of input thermal noise.

Kevin Aylward B.Sc.
431infoEXTRACT@anasoft.co.uk
http://www.anasoft.co.uk
SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.

"There are none more ignorant and useless,than they that seek answers
on their knees, with their eyes closed"



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