Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*?

Started by Paul March 5, 2009
"Paul" <energymover@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1a8d8698-3f87-4096-8bbf-0b91c63288f4@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi, > > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC > Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make > & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I > make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit > would also include the DC batteries and the chassis. > > This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my > circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the > directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they > build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed > lawsuit win for them, no? > > Thanks, > Paul
Sci.electronics.basics.law
On 5 Mar., 23:22, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:1a8d8698-3f87-4096-8bbf-0b91c63288f4@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > > > > > > > Hi, > > > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, > > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC > > Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make > > & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I > > make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit > > would also include the DC batteries and the chassis. > > > This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my > > circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the > > directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they > > build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed > > lawsuit win for them, no? > > > Thanks, > > Paul > > Hi Paul > I always find it quite sad when people start getting nervous and worry ab=
out
> these sorts of things. > I assume you live in the sue-happy US of A? > Really, don't worry about it. Design it properly (heat dissipation, overl=
oad
> protection etc) and the chances of it burning down someone's home is zero=
.
> How much power are we talking about here?, and what kind of batteries? Ma=
ins
> power devices are another level, but if your device is not mains powered > then there is much less to worry about. > > As others have said, the chances of someone suing you when you don't have > any insurance is very low, and that's on top of the chances of it burning > down someones house. What you have to worry about is people returning the > kit "under warranty" because they assembled it wrong and it doesn't work, > they'll think it's *your* responsibility to fix it. I've been selling kit=
s
> for my magazine projects for over 15 years, and that happens occasionally=
,
> you just have to wear it. > > Your chances are much higher of someone suing you when they trip and knoc=
k
> their head in your front garden. > > Just sell your kits and be happy. > > BTW, here is my latest kit coming out shortly:http://www.alternatezone.co=
m/electronics/ucurrent/
> > Regards > Dave.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn -
Hi Dave Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states:
>3 Current ranges: >+/- 0-300mA (70=B5V / mA burden voltage typical) >+/- 0-1000=B5A (10=B5V / uA burden voltage) >+/- 0-1000nA (10=B5V / nA burden voltage)
A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-)
>Output Voltage Units: >1mV/mA >1mV/=B5A >1mV/nA >Resolution (nA range): 100pA (3.5digit meter), 10pA (4.5 digit meter) >Accuracy (typical): <0.2% on =B5A and nA ranges, <0.5% on mA range. >Output Offset Voltage: Negligible on 4.5 digit meter
Neglible. He he - never seen that in a spec before
>Bandwidth: 2KHz nominal (+/-0.1dB) >Temperature Drift: Insignificant over normal ambient range
Insignificant ;-) You should be a sales person (perhaps you are)
>Noise: < -90dBV >THD: < -60dB >Battery: CR2032 Lithium coin cell >Battery Life: >200 hours (LED OFF), >50 hours (LED ON)
Regards Klaus
"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen 
news:OmXrl.21906$ur1.14315@newsfe15.iad...

> Really, don't worry about it.
I would say: DO worry about it, at least enough to set up a business to isolate yourself from any claims; A collegue of mine is being sued+harassed endlessly by some c*nt he once *helped* with some work and fell out with over not getting paid even the expenses for helping! If you are neither working as an employee, nor as a business you are sortof in the shite basically with endless legal possibilities of draining your time and money through the courts.
On Mar 6, 9:59=A0am, Klaus Kragelund <klausk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 Mar., 23:22, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > "Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:1a8d8698-3f87-4096-8bbf-0b91c63288f4@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com... > > > > Hi, > > > > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, > > > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC > > > Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to mak=
e
> > > & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I > > > make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit > > > would also include the DC batteries and the chassis. > > > > This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my > > > circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the > > > directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they > > > build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed > > > lawsuit win for them, no? > > > > Thanks, > > > Paul > > > Hi Paul > > I always find it quite sad when people start getting nervous and worry =
about
> > these sorts of things. > > I assume you live in the sue-happy US of A? > > Really, don't worry about it. Design it properly (heat dissipation, ove=
rload
> > protection etc) and the chances of it burning down someone's home is ze=
ro.
> > How much power are we talking about here?, and what kind of batteries? =
Mains
> > power devices are another level, but if your device is not mains powere=
d
> > then there is much less to worry about. > > > As others have said, the chances of someone suing you when you don't ha=
ve
> > any insurance is very low, and that's on top of the chances of it burni=
ng
> > down someones house. What you have to worry about is people returning t=
he
> > kit "under warranty" because they assembled it wrong and it doesn't wor=
k,
> > they'll think it's *your* responsibility to fix it. I've been selling k=
its
> > for my magazine projects for over 15 years, and that happens occasional=
ly,
> > you just have to wear it. > > > Your chances are much higher of someone suing you when they trip and kn=
ock
> > their head in your front garden. > > > Just sell your kits and be happy. > > > BTW, here is my latest kit coming out shortly:http://www.alternatezone.=
com/electronics/ucurrent/
> > > Regards > > Dave.- Skjul tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > > - Vis tekst i anf=F8rselstegn - > > Hi Dave > > Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states: > > >3 Current ranges: > >+/- 0-300mA (70=B5V / mA burden voltage typical) > >+/- 0-1000=B5A (10=B5V / uA burden voltage) > >+/- 0-1000nA (10=B5V / nA burden voltage) > > A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-) > > >Output Voltage Units: > >1mV/mA > >1mV/=B5A > >1mV/nA > >Resolution (nA range): 100pA (3.5digit meter), 10pA (4.5 digit meter) > >Accuracy (typical): <0.2% on =B5A and nA ranges, <0.5% on mA range. > >Output Offset Voltage: Negligible on 4.5 digit meter > > Neglible. He he - never seen that in a spec before > > >Bandwidth: 2KHz nominal (+/-0.1dB) > >Temperature Drift: Insignificant over normal ambient range > > Insignificant ;-) =A0You should be a sales person (perhaps you are) > > >Noise: < -90dBV > >THD: < -60dB > >Battery: CR2032 Lithium coin cell > >Battery Life: >200 hours (LED OFF), >50 hours (LED ON) > > Regards > > Klaus
my friend about movies for basketball game tonight 6:30 to 9
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 17:29:14 +0100, "Frithiof Jensen"
<frithiof.jensen@diespammerdie.jensen.tdcadsl.dk> wrote:

> >"David L. Jones" <altzone@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen >news:OmXrl.21906$ur1.14315@newsfe15.iad... > >> Really, don't worry about it. > >I would say: DO worry about it, at least enough to set up a business to >isolate yourself from any claims;
Again, in the US such isolation is virtually impossible to obtain without a public company. If the courts determine you were negligent you will be liable. The only way to absolutely avoid liability is to both have the company a publicly owned corporation, and to NOT work for the company.
> A collegue of mine is being sued+harassed >endlessly by some c*nt he once *helped* with some work and fell out with >over not getting paid even the expenses for helping! > >If you are neither working as an employee, nor as a business you are sortof >in the shite basically with endless legal possibilities of draining your >time and money through the courts.
"Klaus Kragelund" <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:06071cbb-6459-4363-9c83-
>Hi Dave >Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states: >>3 Current ranges: >>+/- 0-300mA (70&#2013266101;V / mA burden voltage typical) >>+/- 0-1000&#2013266101;A (10&#2013266101;V / uA burden voltage) >>+/- 0-1000nA (10&#2013266101;V / nA burden voltage) > >A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-)
Typical? Show me one multimeter that even comes close to those burden voltages. Dave.
Paul wrote:
> Hi, > > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC > Converter kit?
Yes. But it's pointless. Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume. It's cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia. Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are cheaper, can be used. John Nagle
On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:41:07 -0800 (PST), Paul <energymover@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi, > >Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, >instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC >Converter kit?
--- Yes. ---
>I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make >& sell DC-DC Converters,
--- Why? UL is a testing laboratory, not a regulatory agency, so they can't keep you from doing whatever you want to.
>so someone suggested selling kits until I >make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit >would also include the DC batteries and the chassis. > >This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my >circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the >directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they >build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed >lawsuit win for them, no?
--- You'd be better off getting legal advice from a lawyer rather than the likes of us.;) JF
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:18:31 -0800, John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> wrote:

>Paul wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, >> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC >> Converter kit? > > Yes. But it's pointless. > > Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume. It's >cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia. > > Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are >cheaper, can be used. > > John Nagle
SMT can also be used in kits, ya big dopey ditz.
John Nagle <nagle@animats.com> wrote in 
news:49b2c08a$0$1666$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

> Paul wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts, >> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC >> Converter kit? > > Yes. But it's pointless. > > Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume. It's > cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia. > > Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are > cheaper, can be used. > > John Nagle >
Uh,hobbyists use SMD,too. I've used them. It's not that hard,you just need the right tools. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net