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design | Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*?


There are 37 messages in this thread.

You are currently looking at messages 11 to 20.

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - Tom Biasi - 2009-03-05 22:21:00

"Paul" <e...@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:1...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
> Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make
> & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I
> make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit
> would also include the DC batteries and the chassis.
>
> This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my
> circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the
> directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they
> build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed
> lawsuit win for them, no?
>
> Thanks,
> Paul

Sci.electronics.basics.law 



Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - Klaus Kragelund - 2009-03-06 09:59:00

On 5 Mar., 23:22, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
> > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
> > Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make
> > & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I
> > make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit
> > would also include the DC batteries and the chassis.
>
> > This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my
> > circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the
> > directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they
> > build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed
> > lawsuit win for them, no?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
>
> Hi Paul
> I always find it quite sad when people start getting nervous and worry about
> these sorts of things.
> I assume you live in the sue-happy US of A?
> Really, don't worry about it. Design it properly (heat dissipation, overload
> protection etc) and the chances of it burning down someone's home is zero.
> How much power are we talking about here?, and what kind of batteries? Mains
> power devices are another level, but if your device is not mains powered
> then there is much less to worry about.
>
> As others have said, the chances of someone suing you when you don't have
> any insurance is very low, and that's on top of the chances of it burning
> down someones house. What you have to worry about is people returning the
> kit "under warranty" because they assembled it wrong and it doesn't work,
> they'll think it's *your* responsibility to fix it. I've been selling kits
> for my magazine projects for over 15 years, and that happens occasionally,
> you just have to wear it.
>
> Your chances are much higher of someone suing you when they trip and knock
> their head in your front garden.
>
> Just sell your kits and be happy.
>
> BTW, here is my latest kit coming out shortly:http://www.alternatezone.com/electronics/ucurrent/
>
> Regards
> Dave.- Skjul tekst i anførselstegn -
>
> - Vis tekst i anførselstegn -

Hi Dave

Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states:

>3 Current ranges:
>+/- 0-300mA (70µV / mA burden voltage typical)
>+/- 0-1000µA (10µV / uA burden voltage)
>+/- 0-1000nA (10µV / nA burden voltage)

A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-)

>Output Voltage Units:
>1mV/mA
>1mV/µA
>1mV/nA
>Resolution (nA range): 100pA (3.5digit meter), 10pA (4.5 digit meter)
>Accuracy (typical): <0.2% on µA and nA ranges, <0.5% on mA range.
>Output Offset Voltage: Negligible on 4.5 digit meter

Neglible. He he - never seen that in a spec before

>Bandwidth: 2KHz nominal (+/-0.1dB)
>Temperature Drift: Insignificant over normal ambient range

Insignificant ;-)  You should be a sales person (perhaps you are)

>Noise: < -90dBV
>THD: < -60dB
>Battery: CR2032 Lithium coin cell
>Battery Life: >200 hours (LED OFF), >50 hours (LED ON)

Regards

Klaus

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - Frithiof Jensen - 2009-03-06 11:29:00

"David L. Jones" <a...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen 
news:OmXrl.21906$u...@newsfe15.iad...

> Really, don't worry about it.

I would say: DO worry about it, at least enough to set up a business to 
isolate yourself from any claims; A collegue of mine is being sued+harassed 
endlessly by some c*nt he once *helped* with some work and fell out with 
over not getting paid even the expenses for helping!

If you are neither working as an employee, nor as a business you are sortof 
in the shite basically with endless legal possibilities of draining your 
time and money through the courts. 


Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - Ashnee - 2009-03-06 15:58:00

On Mar 6, 9:59 am, Klaus Kragelund <klausk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 5 Mar., 23:22, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Paul" <energymo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:1...@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Hi,
>
> > > Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
> > > instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
> > > Converter kit? I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make
> > > & sell DC-DC Converters, so someone suggested selling kits until I
> > > make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit
> > > would also include the DC batteries and the chassis.
>
> > > This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my
> > > circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the
> > > directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they
> > > build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed
> > > lawsuit win for them, no?
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
>
> > Hi Paul
> > I always find it quite sad when people start getting nervous and worry about
> > these sorts of things.
> > I assume you live in the sue-happy US of A?
> > Really, don't worry about it. Design it properly (heat dissipation, overload
> > protection etc) and the chances of it burning down someone's home is zero.
> > How much power are we talking about here?, and what kind of batteries? Mains
> > power devices are another level, but if your device is not mains powered
> > then there is much less to worry about.
>
> > As others have said, the chances of someone suing you when you don't have
> > any insurance is very low, and that's on top of the chances of it burning
> > down someones house. What you have to worry about is people returning the
> > kit "under warranty" because they assembled it wrong and it doesn't work,
> > they'll think it's *your* responsibility to fix it. I've been selling kits
> > for my magazine projects for over 15 years, and that happens occasionally,
> > you just have to wear it.
>
> > Your chances are much higher of someone suing you when they trip and knock
> > their head in your front garden.
>
> > Just sell your kits and be happy.
>
> > BTW, here is my latest kit coming out shortly:http://www.alternatezone.com/electronics/ucurrent/
>
> > Regards
> > Dave.- Skjul tekst i anførselstegn -
>
> > - Vis tekst i anførselstegn -
>
> Hi Dave
>
> Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states:
>
> >3 Current ranges:
> >+/- 0-300mA (70µV / mA burden voltage typical)
> >+/- 0-1000µA (10µV / uA burden voltage)
> >+/- 0-1000nA (10µV / nA burden voltage)
>
> A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-)
>
> >Output Voltage Units:
> >1mV/mA
> >1mV/µA
> >1mV/nA
> >Resolution (nA range): 100pA (3.5digit meter), 10pA (4.5 digit meter)
> >Accuracy (typical): <0.2% on µA and nA ranges, <0.5% on mA range.
> >Output Offset Voltage: Negligible on 4.5 digit meter
>
> Neglible. He he - never seen that in a spec before
>
> >Bandwidth: 2KHz nominal (+/-0.1dB)
> >Temperature Drift: Insignificant over normal ambient range
>
> Insignificant ;-)  You should be a sales person (perhaps you are)
>
> >Noise: < -90dBV
> >THD: < -60dB
> >Battery: CR2032 Lithium coin cell
> >Battery Life: >200 hours (LED OFF), >50 hours (LED ON)
>
> Regards
>
> Klaus

my friend about movies for basketball game tonight 6:30 to 9

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - PeterD - 2009-03-06 17:36:00

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 17:29:14 +0100, "Frithiof Jensen"
<f...@diespammerdie.jensen.tdcadsl.dk> wrote:

>
>"David L. Jones" <a...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen 
>news:OmXrl.21906$u...@newsfe15.iad...
>
>> Really, don't worry about it.
>
>I would say: DO worry about it, at least enough to set up a business to 
>isolate yourself from any claims;

Again, in the US such isolation is virtually impossible to obtain
without a public company. If the courts determine you were negligent
you will be liable. The only way to absolutely avoid liability is to
both have the company a publicly owned corporation, and to NOT work
for the company. 

> A collegue of mine is being sued+harassed 
>endlessly by some c*nt he once *helped* with some work and fell out with 
>over not getting paid even the expenses for helping!
>
>If you are neither working as an employee, nor as a business you are sortof 
>in the shite basically with endless legal possibilities of draining your 
>time and money through the courts. 

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - David L. Jones - 2009-03-07 03:00:00

"Klaus Kragelund" <k...@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:06071cbb-6459-4363-9c83-
>Hi Dave
>Cannot resist it, sorry. You site specs states:
>>3 Current ranges:
>>+/- 0-300mA (70µV / mA burden voltage typical)
>>+/- 0-1000µA (10µV / uA burden voltage)
>>+/- 0-1000nA (10µV / nA burden voltage)
>
>A lot of typical numbers, ok thats ok for hobbyists ;-)

Typical?
Show me one multimeter that even comes close to those burden voltages.

Dave. 



Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - John Nagle - 2009-03-07 14:00:00

Paul wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
> Converter kit? 

   Yes.  But it's pointless.

     Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume.  It's
cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia.

     Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are
cheaper, can be used.

				John Nagle

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - John Fields - 2009-03-07 14:09:00

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 08:41:07 -0800 (PST), Paul <e...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
>instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
>Converter kit? 

---
Yes.
---

>I believe it requires certifications (e.g., UL) to make
>& sell DC-DC Converters, 

---
Why? UL is a testing laboratory, not a regulatory agency, so they can't
keep you from doing whatever you want to.


>so someone suggested selling kits until I
>make enough $ to get the DC-DC Converter fully UL listed. The kit
>would also include the DC batteries and the chassis.
>
>This seems a little iffy to me because what if there's a flaw in my
>circuit design, someone buys my kit that includes all of the
>directions and parts (everything) to make the DC-DC Converter, they
>build it, and it burns down their house? That might be a guaranteed
>lawsuit win for them, no?

---
You'd be better off getting legal advice from a lawyer rather than the
likes of us.;)

JF  

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - FunkyPunk FieldEffectTrollsistor - 2009-03-07 14:40:00

On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:18:31 -0800, John Nagle <n...@animats.com> wrote:

>Paul wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
>> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
>> Converter kit? 
>
>   Yes.  But it's pointless.
>
>     Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume.  It's
>cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia.
>
>     Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are
>cheaper, can be used.
>
>				John Nagle


 SMT can also be used in kits, ya big dopey ditz.

Re: Legal to sell DC-DC Converter *Kits*? - Jim Yanik - 2009-03-07 18:18:00

John Nagle <n...@animats.com> wrote in 
news:49b2c08a$0$1666$7...@news.sonic.net:

> Paul wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Is it legal to sell a kit that includes all of the parts,
>> instructions, and diagrams so someone could build there own DC-DC
>> Converter kit? 
> 
>    Yes.  But it's pointless.
> 
>      Nobody sells kits any more, other than in very tiny volume.  It's
> cheaper to have the whole thing assembled in Asia.
> 
>      Also, in an assembly plant, surface mount components, which are
> cheaper, can be used.
> 
>                     John Nagle
> 

Uh,hobbyists use SMD,too. I've used them.
It's not that hard,you just need the right tools.

-- 
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

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