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basics | How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply


There are 24 messages in this thread.

You are currently looking at messages 11 to 20.

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Robert Roland - 2010-03-02 16:40:00

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 08:52:24 -0800, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
wrote:

>Could be three Ni-Cd in series, though.

It never even struck my mind. Thanks.
-- 
RoRo

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Robert Roland - 2010-03-02 17:05:00

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:45:05 -0800 (PST), jg
<j...@sacbeemail.com> wrote:

>They are NiMH.

In that case, forget everything I said in my earlier post.

>So would it be OK to push to 4.2 vdc and set max current to something
>like 200mA?  I would prefer formulas rather than a straight answer.
>(Teach me how to fish.)

NiMH (and also NiCd) cannot be charged based on absolute voltage.
Their voltage is not predictable enough, and also changes very little
as the charge level changes.

There are several ways to charge NiMH batteries. The simplest one is
to charge them with a constant current for a specific amount of time.
You can only use this method if you know the charge level before you
start charging, which, in practice, means you must fully discharge the
battery before you start charging it. If you cannot find the data
sheet, a safe bet is to charge at C/10 (a current corresponding to one
tenth of the battery's capacity, 250mA in you case) for 14 hours. New
batteries should be overcharged considerably the first time in order
to "activate" all of the electrolyte. 24 hours is usually recommended.

You can configure your lab power supply to be a constant current
charger: Set the voltage higher than the battery voltage will ever
reach, but not so high that you make big sparks when you connect the
leads. I'd say 10-12V is OK. Then set the current limit to 250mA and
charge for the specified amount of time. At this charge rate, you
won't ruin the battery if you leave it connected for a couple of days,
but overcharging will slowly kill the battery even at this rate.

If you want to charge partially discharged batteries, you need a more
intelligent charger. As Tim says, watch the voltage while you charge,
and when the voltage stops rising, you're done. This method relies on
the internal temperature of the cells to change, so it will not work
reliably if you charge very slowly.
-- 
RoRo

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Tim Wescott - 2010-03-02 17:08:00

jg wrote:
>> ---------------------
>> The cell size is 4/5A, about 1500 to 2000 milliAmphour
>> Standard charge is 1/10 capacity (150mA) for 14 hours.
>> It's more than 10 hours because charging efficiency is not 100 percent.
>>
>> Do not let the cells get over 40 degrees C on charge. Heat is not good to
>> NiMH
>> You can charge faster as long as the cells don't overheat.
>> Faster charge profiles require more careful design, with thermal safetys.
> 
> Thanx, what about voltage?  More than 3.6v right?

More than enough to keep the battery charging at the intended current. 
I can't recall the exact number for a NiMH cell, but you want 
significantly more than 1.25V/cell -- 1.5V/cell is probably the bare 
minimum.  Set the voltage to 12V and let the current limit do it's job, 
maybe.

-- 
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - jg - 2010-03-02 17:17:00

On Mar 2, 2:05 pm, Robert Roland <f...@ddress.no> wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:45:05 -0800 (PST), jg
>
> <juangar...@sacbeemail.com> wrote:
> >They are NiMH.
>
> In that case, forget everything I said in my earlier post.
>
> >So would it be OK to push to 4.2 vdc and set max current to something
> >like 200mA?  I would prefer formulas rather than a straight answer.
> >(Teach me how to fish.)
>
> NiMH (and also NiCd) cannot be charged based on absolute voltage.
> Their voltage is not predictable enough, and also changes very little
> as the charge level changes.
>
> There are several ways to charge NiMH batteries. The simplest one is
> to charge them with a constant current for a specific amount of time.
> You can only use this method if you know the charge level before you
> start charging, which, in practice, means you must fully discharge the
> battery before you start charging it. If you cannot find the data
> sheet, a safe bet is to charge at C/10 (a current corresponding to one
> tenth of the battery's capacity, 250mA in you case) for 14 hours. New
> batteries should be overcharged considerably the first time in order
> to "activate" all of the electrolyte. 24 hours is usually recommended.
>
> You can configure your lab power supply to be a constant current
> charger: Set the voltage higher than the battery voltage will ever
> reach, but not so high that you make big sparks when you connect the
> leads. I'd say 10-12V is OK. Then set the current limit to 250mA and
> charge for the specified amount of time. At this charge rate, you
> won't ruin the battery if you leave it connected for a couple of days,
> but overcharging will slowly kill the battery even at this rate.
>
> If you want to charge partially discharged batteries, you need a more
> intelligent charger. As Tim says, watch the voltage while you charge,
> and when the voltage stops rising, you're done. This method relies on
> the internal temperature of the cells to change, so it will not work
> reliably if you charge very slowly.
> --
> RoRo

Excellent.  Thanx Robert, this is exactly the info I was looking for.
I have about 10 of these.  Eventually they will find their way into RC
boats.  Kids are going to love having the extra batteries.

Thanx again.

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Tim Wescott - 2010-03-02 18:42:00

jg wrote:
> On Mar 2, 2:05 pm, Robert Roland <f...@ddress.no> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 11:45:05 -0800 (PST), jg
>>
>> <juangar...@sacbeemail.com> wrote:
>>> They are NiMH.
>> In that case, forget everything I said in my earlier post.
>>
>>> So would it be OK to push to 4.2 vdc and set max current to something
>>> like 200mA?  I would prefer formulas rather than a straight answer.
>>> (Teach me how to fish.)
>> NiMH (and also NiCd) cannot be charged based on absolute voltage.
>> Their voltage is not predictable enough, and also changes very little
>> as the charge level changes.
>>
>> There are several ways to charge NiMH batteries. The simplest one is
>> to charge them with a constant current for a specific amount of time.
>> You can only use this method if you know the charge level before you
>> start charging, which, in practice, means you must fully discharge the
>> battery before you start charging it. If you cannot find the data
>> sheet, a safe bet is to charge at C/10 (a current corresponding to one
>> tenth of the battery's capacity, 250mA in you case) for 14 hours. New
>> batteries should be overcharged considerably the first time in order
>> to "activate" all of the electrolyte. 24 hours is usually recommended.
>>
>> You can configure your lab power supply to be a constant current
>> charger: Set the voltage higher than the battery voltage will ever
>> reach, but not so high that you make big sparks when you connect the
>> leads. I'd say 10-12V is OK. Then set the current limit to 250mA and
>> charge for the specified amount of time. At this charge rate, you
>> won't ruin the battery if you leave it connected for a couple of days,
>> but overcharging will slowly kill the battery even at this rate.
>>
>> If you want to charge partially discharged batteries, you need a more
>> intelligent charger. As Tim says, watch the voltage while you charge,
>> and when the voltage stops rising, you're done. This method relies on
>> the internal temperature of the cells to change, so it will not work
>> reliably if you charge very slowly.
>> --
>> RoRo
> 
> Excellent.  Thanx Robert, this is exactly the info I was looking for.
> I have about 10 of these.  Eventually they will find their way into RC
> boats.  Kids are going to love having the extra batteries.
> 
If you don't mind spending the $$ get a peak-detect charger at your 
local hobby shop.  Or look around and see if there are any used ones on 
Craigs List -- there are probably still some electric fliers that are 
converting to LiPo and have an old NiCd only charger around, or who are 
upgrading.

-- 
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Robert Roland - 2010-03-03 03:57:00

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:42:21 -0800, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
wrote:

>If you don't mind spending the $$ get a peak-detect charger at your 
>local hobby shop.  Or look around and see if there are any used ones on 
>Craigs List -- there are probably still some electric fliers that are 
>converting to LiPo and have an old NiCd only charger around, or who are 
>upgrading.

If you're going to buy a charger that can not do LiPo, make sure you
get it REALLY cheap. For RC hobby, LiPo is the way forward. There are
now batteries on the market that can be charged in 12-15 minutes and
weigh a lot less than NiMH.
-- 
RoRo

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - amdx - 2010-03-03 07:56:00

"jg" <j...@sacbeemail.com> wrote in message 
news:a...@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have a few Rayovac Camcorder 3.6V/2500 mAh batteries that I want to
> charge.  These were originally charged with a camcorder that I do not
> have.  However, I have the next best thing.  I have a DC Power Supply
> (BK Precision 1660A) with both voltage control and current control.
> Basically I can set this bad boy to output any volt and current
> combination.  I have tried charging the batteries at 4.0v and 100mA
> and let them charge for about 3 hours.  Batteries never got hot (which
> to me would indicate that they were never really charged.)  When I
> first unplug them, they register about 3.6v.  However after a day or
> so, their voltage drops to 2.6v or so.
>
> So... I am either not charging them up completely or they are no
> longer functional.  However, these batteries were never put in
> production.  They are old, but they were still in original packaging
> as of a few days ago.
>
> Any help greatly appreciated.
>
> jg
http://www.powerstream.com/NiMH.htm

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/ChargingNiMH/ChargingNiMH.html

http://www.mpoweruk.com/chargers.htm

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/charger_appman.pdf

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf 



Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Tim Wescott - 2010-03-03 12:16:00

Robert Roland wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:42:21 -0800, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
> wrote:
> 
>> If you don't mind spending the $$ get a peak-detect charger at your 
>> local hobby shop.  Or look around and see if there are any used ones on 
>> Craigs List -- there are probably still some electric fliers that are 
>> converting to LiPo and have an old NiCd only charger around, or who are 
>> upgrading.
> 
> If you're going to buy a charger that can not do LiPo, make sure you
> get it REALLY cheap. For RC hobby, LiPo is the way forward. There are
> now batteries on the market that can be charged in 12-15 minutes and
> weigh a lot less than NiMH.

Yup.  The weight isn't as important for boats, but Ni-anything has 
pretty much had its day in the sun for electric flying.

-- 
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - Tim Wescott - 2010-03-03 13:27:00

Robert Roland wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 15:42:21 -0800, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now>
> wrote:
> 
>> If you don't mind spending the $$ get a peak-detect charger at your 
>> local hobby shop.  Or look around and see if there are any used ones on 
>> Craigs List -- there are probably still some electric fliers that are 
>> converting to LiPo and have an old NiCd only charger around, or who are 
>> upgrading.
> 
> If you're going to buy a charger that can not do LiPo, make sure you
> get it REALLY cheap. For RC hobby, LiPo is the way forward. There are
> now batteries on the market that can be charged in 12-15 minutes and
> weigh a lot less than NiMH.

As far as that goes, I've got a Hitec "Multi Charge-A-Matic II" that I'd 
_give_ away, but as far as I can tell it's only good for NiCd batteries, 
not NiMH (which is why it's collecting dust on a shelf).

-- 
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

Re: How to charge 3.6VDC battery with DC Power Supply - jg - 2010-03-03 14:39:00

Status Report:
I charged one of the packs overnight for 12 hours.  Max current was
set at 250mA.  Voltage was set at 10VDC.  However, actual voltage
hovered around 4.5V all night.  Current control took over.  When I
unplugged this morning, pack felt warm to the touch.  By no means
hot.  Without load, voltage registered at 4.2V.  Nice.  I will now let
sit for a few days and see how long it holds.

Question:
Based on what I have learned, I should  be able to charge these in
series w/o any issues, right?  Well, maybe.  Given the voltage
unpredictability of NiMH, the voltage drop may not be shared equally
across the packs.  However, based on data from last night,  Current is
the dominating factor here... so it might just work.

jg

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